Chevy Volt Spy Shots

[blue2000s]

http://www.leftlanenews.com/chevrolet-volt.html

I've been more impressed with GM products lately. I've rented a couple of the latest Malibus and G6s and they are actually pretty nice cars to drive. They have reasonably tight suspensions and almost Toyota-like interior materials.

[Quickurt]

http://www.leftlanenews.com/chevrolet-volt.html

I've been more impressed with GM products lately. I've rented a couple of the latest Malibus and G6s and they are actually pretty nice cars to drive. They have reasonably tight suspensions and almost Toyota-like interior materials.
That's funny, blue. (as in strange)
I haven't rented a Malibu, but I have had several G6s on my trips to Seattle. I have had a very negative reaction to them. Compared to my Mazda, there isn't much to compare. I thought the seats were atrocious, the engine very non-responsive and the transmission sluggish. Handling was difficult to tell with the crappy OEM tires, but firm doesn't necessarily make it good.

[blue2000s]

That's funny, blue. (as in strange)
I haven't rented a Malibu, but I have had several G6s on my trips to Seattle. I have had a very negative reaction to them. Compared to my Mazda, there isn't much to compare. I thought the seats were atrocious, the engine very non-responsive and the transmission sluggish. Handling was difficult to tell with the crappy OEM tires, but firm doesn't necessarily make it good.

Which Mazda? I've also rented a couple of Mazda3s and Mazda5s and although they are nice to drive, I wouldn't say they were much different than the GMs. They also were about on par with the GMs in materials.

[CA_Boxster]

I had a new Malibu for a week recently and I was pretty impressed. Put an upgraded interior in there rather than the rental car basic option and it's a nice car for what it's supposed to be. Pretty tight, very comfortable and with a good ride on the highway. It was a little soft for my taste in regular driving but that might be something that get's better with any "sport" option that could be chosen.

I've had plenty of G6s as well. While it seems to be a perfectly good car I never thought it was the breakthrough in GM car development that the mags claimed it was.

[Quickurt]

Which Mazda? I've also rented a couple of Mazda3s and Mazda5s and although they are nice to drive, I wouldn't say they were much different than the GMs. They also were about on par with the GMs in materials.
I have a CX7 and have been very happy with it for just under 80k miles, right now.
My daughter's Mazda 3 Grand Touring and my production super's Mazda 6 Grand Touring are also far above anything I've had in a GM rental car, as far as driving fun, build quality or interior materials. Having said that, none of the GM (or Chrysler) rental cars I've had were upper end versions and the Goodyear Response Edge tires on the CX7 are a far cry from the el Crappo Bridgestones that came on it.
Full disclosure - Mazda is a good customer to my business - that had nothing to do with either my daughter or super also buying Mazdas. My daughter was actually bound and determined to show ol' dad they could find a better car for the money and super had his before he came to work for me.

[Brucelee]

IMHO the G6 and the Aura are great sedans for the bucks.

[greesedc]

I'll share a thought about interiors on some of the cars mentioned here. My last Mazda was a Mazda 6, V6 Sportwagen. It was a dealer repo and had all the whistles and bells...except a rather plain looking cloth interior.
Whipped that baby over to my upholstery guy and he put a aftermarket leather interior and bun warmers in it for about $1300. I picked a lovely two tone grey/dark grey and it was next to impossible to tell from factory, except it looked better, and the fit was perfect. I believe they make patterns for most all popular cars, especially the popular ones like a G6 or Malibu. If not out for the new Malibu yet, I'm sure one will be avail soon. Considering what I paid for the car (dealer internet) I came out like a bandit when I traded it in. So if you don't like your interior, change it! E Z

Don
'01 Boxster

[blue2000s]

To me at least, alot of the quality issues that I've had with US automaker interiors isn't the seat materials so much as the hard plastic dashboards with several varying textures, the small and often poorly styled instuments and the extremely cheap feeling switches, buttons and shift lever. In the 80s and 90s all the GM cars used the same, extremely cheap blinker/wiper stalk that felt like crap. The newer GMs seem to have addressed pretty much all of that.

Adding leather seats to a crappy interior is like putting lipstick on a pig.

[Quickurt]

Adding leather seats to a crappy interior is like putting lipstick on a pig.
How DARE you insult my pig that way???? :D :D :D
Speaking of pigs........I'm not sure if it is some kind of political statement, but the dash and tops of the door panels in the CX7 are DEFINITELY fake PIGSKIN!! :eek:

[blue2000s]

How DARE you insult my pig that way???? :D :D :D
Speaking of pigs........I'm not sure if it is some kind of political statement, but the dash and tops of the door panels in the CX7 are DEFINITELY fake PIGSKIN!! :eek:

I wasn't trying to say anything about the CX7, I've never been in one. I was just talking in general terms.

I'm actually a big Mazda fan, having owned a couple of Rx-7s and almost bought another before buying my Boxster. My parents have owned a 626 and a Miata for some time so I've had alot of experience with them. They are definitely the most sporty and European feeling of Japanese manufacturers.

But I have seen a big degradation in the quality of their products over the years. My 82 Rx-7 is a tank, probably one of the most well built car's I've ever been in, definitely more solidly put together than my Boxster. But over the years, they have gone to thinner steels in the body, more economical molded plastics in interior trim, more plastic in places where metals should be, and less robust electronics. The 3rd generation Rx-7 is beautiful and fun to drive, but everything is very delicate, it's almost Italian in it's tempermentality. They are still fun cars, but I can't help but to think that the influence of Ford hasn't been completely positive on the vehicles.

Of course that's not to say other manufacturers haven't done the same thing. When I hop into my uncle's 77 911S or my buddy's 78 911SC, there is no denying that Porsche has learned alot in the way of cutting costs and it shows in the quality of the product.

Overall, GM came from another place, where the car's were not of high quality, and they had to work to keep costs down while improving the vehicle. In this respect, I feel the playing field has been levelled somewhat in that GM is closer in quality to the Japanese and Germans by moving up as the others have moved down.

[Quickurt]

I was joking about "insulting my pig!" :D

The pig skin texture of the dash is interesting, considering Muslims won't get near anything pork.

As far as metal guage and less stout interior panels, etc., I think we are looking more at dropping weight for fuel efficiency and/or performance as much as cutting costs. Most of the materials they can get away cutting thickness and weight with are actually more expensive materials that don't really cut costs. A good example is newer light weight steel alloys and aluminum replacing much of what used to be good old heavy, thick mild steel. Many of the newer engineered resin plastics main strength is in being able to mold them in thinner section widths, while maintaing shape in the tough heat conditions of a parked car. That doesn't necessarily mean they "feel" more rigid. Some are actually thin section moldings that feel lightly padded. Most cost cutting has come through improved efficiency manufacturing, such as robotics and computer control of almost every function of manufacture.
To me, the next big break through on weight reduction will be in light weight sound deadening. At present, it's the big compromise on weight. I would take a mile, or two, per gallon less fuel efficiency on my CX7 for a few hundred pounds more sound deadening. It doesn't compare with the quiet inside the Acura CL I had, but the CX7 is a much larger vehicle that weighs in at only 100 lb. more than the CL. Get that quiet ride with the light weight.......you'll kick some serious sales butt. If the kick-*ss surround Bose system in the CX7 had that dead still Acura cockpit to play inside........WOW!
Before my Boxster salesman let me listen to the two Boxster stereos, he wanted to see what I was comparing them to. I played CSN - Carry On in the parked CX7. He told me not to waste my time listening to either Boxster stereo. :(

[blue2000s]

I was joking about "insulting my pig!" :D

The pig skin texture of the dash is interesting, considering Muslims won't get near anything pork.

As far as metal guage and less stout interior panels, etc., I think we are looking more at dropping weight for fuel efficiency and/or performance as much as cutting costs. Most of the materials they can get away cutting thickness and weight with are actually more expensive materials that don't really cut costs. A good example is newer light weight steel alloys and aluminum replacing much of what used to be good old heavy, thick mild steel. Many of the newer engineered resin plastics main strength is in being able to mold them in thinner section widths, while maintaing shape in the tough heat conditions of a parked car. That doesn't necessarily mean they "feel" more rigid. Some are actually thin section moldings that feel lightly padded. Most cost cutting has come through improved efficiency manufacturing, such as robotics and computer control of almost every function of manufacture.
To me, the next big break through on weight reduction will be in light weight sound deadening. At present, it's the big compromise on weight. I would take a mile, or two, per gallon less fuel efficiency on my CX7 for a few hundred pounds more sound deadening. It doesn't compare with the quiet inside the Acura CL I had, but the CX7 is a much larger vehicle that weighs in at only 100 lb. more than the CL. Get that quiet ride with the light weight.......you'll kick some serious sales butt. If the kick-*ss surround Bose system in the CX7 had that dead still Acura cockpit to play inside........WOW!
Before my Boxster salesman let me listen to the two Boxster stereos, he wanted to see what I was comparing them to. I played CSN - Carry On in the parked CX7. He told me not to waste my time listening to either Boxster stereo. :(

From first hand experience, I can tell you that they are looking at saving money first, then they worry about other things. Ligher weight is simply a side benefit of the reduced cost of the raw materials and the lower performance tooling needed to create the forms needed.

[Quickurt]

From first hand experience, I can tell you that they are looking at saving money first, then they worry about other things. Ligher weight is simply a side benefit of the reduced cost of the raw materials and the lower performance tooling needed to create the forms needed.
I beg to differ. All of my friends with Mazda are engineers and they spend MORE on tooling to deal with the more exotic materials. They have cut nearly 20% of weight on their 5 speed auto (FN/R5), from the first generation of this box, but it costs 13% MORE to manufacture. They are now looking at building their own 6 speed auto, they currently use Aisen, a division of Toyota, but they think this unit is too big and heavy for the amount of power it is rated for.
My cousin has also been with chassis tooling purchasing at Ford and has often described the headaches and expense involved in tooling up for the higher tensile, lighter weight steel alloys they are now using.

[blue2000s]

I was a design engineer for GM and then for a teir 2 supplier to auto manufacturers from all corners before moving over to the electronics industry. Most components in your car are at least partially designed and supplied by some company with a name that you've never heard of. These suppliers typically have a mandate that the price of components must come down over time. The industry, all industry, is driven by profit. If you don't believe that's the driving force, you're wrong.

There are always special projects going on to improve product or drive innovation in some way. Some pan out, some don't, but for that to go on, the cars have to make enough profit.

[Brucelee]

I was a design engineer for GM and then for a teir 2 supplier to auto manufacturers from all corners before moving over to the electronics industry. Most components in your car are at least partially designed and supplied by some company with a name that you've never heard of. These suppliers typically have a mandate that the price of components must come down over time. The industry, all industry, is driven by profit. If you don't believe that's the driving force, you're wrong.

There are always special projects going on to improve product or drive innovation in some way. Some pan out, some don't, but for that to go on, the cars have to make enough profit.


For sure. No profit, no investment.

Simple but harsh.

:dance: